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StarSmash FAQ
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babychaos
Fri Aug 20 2010, 07:39AM

Registered Member #14
Joined: Tue Jan 12 2010, 11:56PM
Posts: 613
FAQs in place for StarSmash only - if you have any questions, please ask them in this thread, and I/David/someone else with better decision making skills will add the answers to this post:

Tournament Scoring

If I table my opponent, how are the bonus points worked out?

If you table your opponent, you automatically score all the bonus points for that round - there is no need to play out the remaining turns


Space Marines

Can Dark Angels use the updated rules for items in the Marine codex (e.g. Storm Shields, Cyclone Missile Launchers)?

No - Dark Angels are Dark Angels and may only use rules and items in the Dark Angels codex


SW: Does JotWW affect a "plane" along the line? In other words can models on 2nd floor of buildings etc be affected.

No, JotWW is described as a line, and lines are one-dimensional. Only models on the ground are affected.


If the rune priest is on the first tier of a building does the power Jaws of the World Wolf run from his relative position on the ground, or does it not run at all?

The power description states that the line must go along the board, and must start from the rune priest, so if he is not on the ground floor of a building, it cannot be used. This also means that it cannot be used if the Rune Priest is embarked on a vehicle


Orks

Does the S3 hit mentioned in the Trukk ramshackle rules override the "-1" for open topped? ie do hits remain at S3

No, the two rules don't conflict - a Trukk ramshackle explosion is Str 3 (rather than a normal vehicle from the rulebook which would be strength 4) and by the rulebook rules for open-topped vehicles, this is reduced by -1 to a Strength 2 hit


Do vehicles gain a 4+ save or a 5+ save for being obscured under a Kustom Force Field?

Vehicles gain a 4+ save (the standard obscuring save) - all troops only get a 5+ save


Can enemy (non-ork) units benefit from a Kustom Force Field?

Yes - the force field extends where the force field extends, and protects everyone in range and under the umbrella


Chaos Space Marines

CSM: Does Warptime require you to reroll all hits/wounds or only failed ones? Bad wording again....the fluff indicating precision, not flailing

Only failed rolls need be re-rolled


Eldar

Do Banshee masks have any effect in current edition? they negate bonuses to defending troops, howver now assaulting troops have negatives applies to them...

No, they don't. Banshees that assault a unit in cover will not be aided by their banshee masks.


Can Maugen Ra use both Exarch powers (Fast Shot and Crack Shot) at the same time?

No.


Tau Empire

I have a flechette launcher on each piranha in a squadron of three piranhas. If the unit is assaulted by 5 marines, do the unit's flechette launchers cause fifteen damage rolls on the marines?

No - Each model in contact with a vehicle within the squadron equipped with Flechette Launchers takes a single damage roll. In the example given there would be 5 damage rolls. If an assaulting model is in base-to-base contact with more than one equipped vehicle, then it will take a damage roll per vehicle it is in contact with.


Daemonhunters

It says (C:DH, p23) that "If the Grey Knight Hero has a retinue then he must join it and they are treated as a single unit during the battle. Note the retinue does not count as a separate HQ choice"

Does this mean that a Hero + retinue would count as a single kill point, or two, in annihilate missions? as the retinue can -only- be taken as part of the same unit, logic would state that they are a single kill point, in much the same way as an IG command squad, however they appear more like a SM command squad/honour guard in make-up and could count as two


It depends on the order in which they are killed. If the Hero dies first, then he and the retinue only give up a single kill point. Howevre, if the retinue is completely dead, they will give up a kill point, and the Hero reverts to being an Independent Character, and so will give up a second kill point if he dies


Also what are the rules for the inclusion of IG Armoured Fist Squads (as these no longer exist) under the section for inducted units (C:DH, p30). I would take the inclusion of 0-1 Sentinal Squadrons as either Scout or Armoured, and 0-1 Battle Tanks as a single tank rather than a squadron.

As Armoured Fist squads no longer exist, they cannot be taken. Sentinel squadrons can be taken as either Scout or Armoured (but still a limit of a single squadron, not a squadron of each). Leman Russ Battle Tanks however, may be taken as a squadron, as this is the option in the new IG codex.


Can I still use allies, as the PDF versions of the codex on the GW website omit these rules?

You can, however you must have a copy of all rules/codexes that you wish to use with you (in case of rules queries). You must, therefore, have a book version of the codex if you wish to use Allies.


Does Vulkan Hestans special ability (to twin-link various weapons) extend to allies?

Yes.


Tyranids

Tyranids - Does the Hive Commander ability give +1 to reserve rolls while the Tyrant is in reserve himself?

Yes it does.



StarSmash Missions

Take and Hold

So if any part of a transport with embarked scoring units in (or are you using hull) or any single model from a single scoring unit is not with 6" then they do not score at all?

Correct. A unit (or the hull of vehicle they are in) must be fully within 6" of the centre of the board to count as scoring for this mission.

Kill 'em All

It says in the setup that players nominate their most expensive units. This implies some sort of choice, especially where you have multiple units at the same cost.

After deployment a player should identify their highest value HQ, and the 2 highest value Troop units. In the case of a tie in either category, all viable units should be identified (so, for example, if you had 2 HQ units with the same value, and 3 Troop units with the same value all 5 should be identified...) the first viable HQ and first 2 viable Troop units to be destroyed will drop the Objective.

Values are determined after any deployment-type choices (such as assignment of Wolf Guard, splitting of Combat Squads) and once determined will not change, irrespective of other in-game actions.

Space Marines - If I choose to Combat-Squad a uit, how do I determine their value?

A Combat Squad is worth exactly half the total cost of the unit, irrespective of the split of wargear within the unit.



Imperial Guard - In the case of infantry platoons how do you work out who drops the objective and when. How do you compare points costs to other units?

Determine the cost of the unit from its component units that grouped up to form it.


Space Wolves -How are wolf guard accounted for? Do you assign them before nominating your most expensive troops or do you take account of the units cost before assigning the wolfguard guys as leaders?

Points cost is determined after the assignment of Wolf Guard to squads.


Space Wolves - Bjorn. Does he then stay on the board and ignore the Kill em all objective or does he become 2 objectives?

Bjorn will count for 2 objectives if he is the most expensive HQ...once for the mission rules, and once for the character rules.




[ Edited Fri Oct 08 2010, 08:54AM ]
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Heckler1
Sat Aug 21 2010, 12:11PM
Registered Member #15
Joined: Wed Jan 13 2010, 10:48AM
Posts: 280
Eldar

Do Banshee masks have any effect in current edition? they negate bonuses to defending troops, however now assaulting troops have negatives applies to them...

No, they don't. Banshees that assault a unit in cover will not be aided by their banshee masks.

Banshee masks entry say’s:
“In the first round of an assault a model wearing a Banshee mask has I10 and negates any initiative bonus conferred by cover and grenades”

There is nothing specific (in my Codex) about it only negating bonuses to defending troops.

Assaulting thru cover:
“All models have their initiative value lowered to 1 when attacking regardless of other initiative modifiers.”

Surely the mask entry over rides the cover rules as it states that it “ignores any initiative bonus conferred by cover”, having your initiative lowered to 1 is a bonus, surely, it’s just a negative one for the mask wearers?

I’m sure that this one has been done to death already for our other events but can someone clarify why cover over rules the mask rules?
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SpikyJohn
Sat Aug 21 2010, 01:02PM
Registered Member #70
Joined: Sat Jun 19 2010, 11:38AM
Posts: 236
Thanks for the rules Pete.

General rules questions for clarification:-

The copy and paste has left reference to Rapid Strike in the bits you have posted, FYI.

Are you intentionally ruling with the Hive Tyrant against the FAQ or is it an oversight? THe GW July 2010 FAQ says that Hive Tyrants and The Swarmlord cannot be picked out for shooting or assaults at all. It also states that the Hive Tyrant cannot leave a unit of Tyrant Guard once they have joined it.

Also, are allies allowed (as in DH & WH) just for clarification since the book has been replaced with a PDF which does not include allies rules. If allies are included do they benefit from Vulkan Hestans Chapter Tactics? The rule does not replace combat tactics like all of the other chapter tactics do, it just removes combat tactics from everyone that has it and the bonuses confir army wide.

[ Edited Sat Aug 21 2010, 01:51PM ]
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SpikyJohn
Sat Aug 21 2010, 01:43PM
Registered Member #70
Joined: Sat Jun 19 2010, 11:38AM
Posts: 236
Mission Specifics:-

Just for the record I can see lots of scenarios where these two special missions can cause problems, especially in causing inbalance between different armies (let me know if you want be to provide exmples, I probably will anyways). But enough of that, I am not knocking the thing, well I am, but I am just trying to be constructive rather than an ar**hole. So on to the rules questions.

Take and Hold

Just to clarify. Units (including transports) must be wholly within 6" of the objective. So if any part of a transport with embarked scoring units in (or are you using hull) or any single model from a single scoring unit is not with 6" then they do not score at all? People get confused with changes to objective rules at events and I just wanted to throw it out there at this stage so no one has an excuse.

Kill em all

Nice mission name for sure. This one is mental.

General

It says in the setup that players nominate their most expensive units. This implies some sort of choice, especially where you have multiple units at the same cost.

Imperial Guard

In the case of infantry platoons how do you work out who drops the objective and when. Do you treat each part of the squad as a troop at its cost even though it cannot be purchased as a single troops option. Example, I have chosen the most simple platoon 1 Platoon Command Squad and 2 Infantry squads with no upgrades. They count as a single troops choice at 130 points and can deploy seperately or combined. How does this work in terms of which part has the objective, how do you compare points costs to other units?

Space Wolves

How are wolf guard accounted for? Do you assign them before nominating your most expensive troops (which then means you cannot use them to tactically swap at deployment losing half the benefit) or do you take account of the units cost before assigning the wolfguard guys as leaders?

Bjorn. He already stays on board as an objective and so the model does not get removed. He is clearly going to be in contention for the most expensive HQ. Does he then stay on the board and ignore the Kill em all objective, does he become 2 objectives making it possible to have an 8 objective game?

Tyranids

I chose 1 tervigon and one 10 strong unit of basic termigants as my troops choice. My tervigon then spawns 11 termigants as troops. Who gives up the objective when the gants innevitably die? Again comes back to the nominate thing.

Sorry mate. That is all. IMHO if you call a mission "Kill em all" it should be straight up no objectives no kill points all done on victory points. Use Bjorn and you can potentially have an 8 objective game where 4 units of troops have already been detroyed. How many troops are there seriously gonna be left?

Poor Chaos Daemons. They stuggle against mech anyways and their 2 most viable troops are 5 man horror squads to pop mech (then they die straight away) and plague bearers that are slow and purposeful and spend the whole game either getting shot to sh*t or running towards the centre.


[ Edited Sat Aug 21 2010, 02:38PM ]
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SpikyJohn
Sat Aug 21 2010, 02:45PM
Registered Member #70
Joined: Sat Jun 19 2010, 11:38AM
Posts: 236
Also, Marcus, I think it is generally accepted that banshee masks do not help when assaulting through cover.

Obviously it is the usual GW rules writing ect but I think you hit the nail on the head when you said the the bonus is negative to the banshees. The mask rule states that it negates and bonuses, the cover rules state that if you assault through cover then you lose you initiative, which is a negative which isn't accounted for in the mask rules. Stupid I know, but seems to be the trend.

At least masks trump nid lash whips now though.
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babychaos
Sun Aug 22 2010, 03:34PM

Registered Member #14
Joined: Tue Jan 12 2010, 11:56PM
Posts: 613
Hi John

Cheers for the questions..good to have another view on the missions (blame David for the name...I had the core idea, and he fleshed it out, formatted it up and named it...I'll take the blame for everything else...)

1) Take and Hold
This was a mission shamelessly stolen from Bristol Vanguard. As per the wording the unit/model must be entirely within 6" of the centre (for vehicles counting the hull, and discounting sponsons/banners etc etc as per normal...)

2) Kill 'em All (or hide trying!)
General
You're right in that nominate is a bad word. Before deployment a player should identify their highest value HQ, and the 2 highest value Troop units. In the case of a tie in either category, all viable units should be identified (so, for example, if you had 2 HQ units with the same value, and 3 Troop units with the same value all 5 should be identified...) the first viable HQ and first 2 viable Troop units to be destroyed will drop the Objective.

Values are determined before any deployment-type choices (such as assignment of Wolf Guard, splitting of Combat Squads) and once determined wil not change, irrespective of deplotment options and other in-game actions. If a player chooses to split a viable Troop option (for example Combat Squads), then the first sub-unit to be destroyed will drop the objective.

To cover specific notes;

Imperial Guard
If the platoon is deployed separately, then the first unit to die will drop the objective. The points cost is determined as the cost of the Troop selection. This is really no different to Combat Squads on Space Marines, and is a consious choice of the owning player in this mission as to how he wishes to deploy.

Space Wolves
Points cost is determined before the assignment of Wolf Guard to squads, as squad assignment is a deployment option.

Bjorn will count for 2 objectives if he is the most expensive HQ...once for the mission rules, and once for the character rules.

Tyranids
As per above, the determination of the Objective carrying units is determined before deployment...any units created in the game have no bearing on which units are viable.

Chaos Daemons
It's very tough to come up with objectives that are balanced for all army lists, especially given the very disparate levels of the varying codices. I'm thoroughly hoping that by adding a couple of non-standard missions into the mix we can offer players a good challenge...if it all goes belly up I will step up and take the blame


re: the FAQ...the official GW ones take precedence over the one above (which is blatantly Davids one from Rapid Strike with some questions edited out, and one change to Tau where I personally disagreed with the old ruling, which was kicking them when they were down anyway...)...I shall check if I've missed one, and if so correct it.
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babychaos
Sun Aug 22 2010, 03:36PM

Registered Member #14
Joined: Tue Jan 12 2010, 11:56PM
Posts: 613
re: Banshees...as John said this is the agreed ruling on Banshees and cover, and has been this way for the last few tourneys.
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SpikyJohn
Sun Aug 22 2010, 04:00PM
Registered Member #70
Joined: Sat Jun 19 2010, 11:38AM
Posts: 236
Nice one Pete, thanks for the info.

I don't necesarrily think that they are bad missions (like some I have played), but I can see some real wierd positions coming up. All good fun though, and after all, everyone is playing the same game and knows well in advance so thats great! Its always good to get new missions in there, I just thought I would ask the questions I thought of early on so that everyones on the same page.

Also, great that you said you would take the blame lol. I dont think it will effect anyones fun and don't think you will be blamed for anything lol!

Cheers mate. Catch you down the club in a couple of weeks.

Good luck with the whole thing. I think you are doing great so far. Rules pack up nice and quick, taking names early on and spending time sorting things out from idiots like me. Kudos.

[ Edited Sun Aug 22 2010, 04:01PM ]
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babychaos
Sun Aug 22 2010, 06:26PM

Registered Member #14
Joined: Tue Jan 12 2010, 11:56PM
Posts: 613
I've added the questions and answers to the main FAQ. No idea how I missed the Hive Tyrant/Guard entry in the GW FAQ...I blame my inability to beat swarm armies!

I'm getting plenty of help and advice from the committee members, so hopefully can minimise any opportunities for the fuck-up fairies to step in!
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Heckler1
Sun Aug 22 2010, 10:06PM
Registered Member #15
Joined: Wed Jan 13 2010, 10:48AM
Posts: 280
JohnJ wrote ...

Also, Marcus, I think it is generally accepted that banshee masks do not help when assaulting through cover.

Obviously it is the usual GW rules writing ect but I think you hit the nail on the head when you said the the bonus is negative to the banshees. The mask rule states that it negates and bonuses, the cover rules state that if you assault through cover then you lose you initiative, which is a negative which isn't accounted for in the mask rules. Stupid I know, but seems to be the trend.

At least masks trump nid lash whips now though.


It is accounted for though which is what I don't get , as the 'Dex states:
"negates any initiative bonus conferred by cover"
Therefore the negative cover bonus is negated and so the I10 stands...

TBH I'm not playing in this tourney anyway (don't really do tourney's) just a rulling I've heard before and never had the right books to hand to check it up, now I do I don't see where the ruling is based. Meh.
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spikydavid
Mon Aug 23 2010, 09:26AM
spikydavid

Registered Member #2
Joined: Thu Dec 10 2009, 04:18PM
Posts: 459
Heckler1 wrote ...

Eldar

Do Banshee masks have any effect in current edition? they negate bonuses to defending troops, however now assaulting troops have negatives applies to them...

No, they don't. Banshees that assault a unit in cover will not be aided by their banshee masks.

Banshee masks entry say’s:
“In the first round of an assault a model wearing a Banshee mask has I10 and negates any initiative bonus conferred by cover and grenades”

There is nothing specific (in my Codex) about it only negating bonuses to defending troops.

Assaulting thru cover:
“All models have their initiative value lowered to 1 when attacking regardless of other initiative modifiers.”

Surely the mask entry over rides the cover rules as it states that it “ignores any initiative bonus conferred by cover”, having your initiative lowered to 1 is a bonus, surely, it’s just a negative one for the mask wearers?

I’m sure that this one has been done to death already for our other events but can someone clarify why cover over rules the mask rules?



It's not a bonus to have your initiative lowered to 1. It's a modifier, definitely, but it's not a bonus - it isn't a bonus to have your salary lowered to a quid!

Interesting point that the codex doesn't state that the negation of bonuses is only for defenders, but I think it hinges on the change from fourth to fifth changing how cover affects initiative values

Personally, I think the ruling is correct from a RAW perspective, but wrong from a RAI choice, and RAI is as good a way of ruling things for individual tournaments (as long as it is early enough)
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Heckler1
Mon Aug 23 2010, 11:38AM
Registered Member #15
Joined: Wed Jan 13 2010, 10:48AM
Posts: 280
Never said it was a positive bonus and the rules don't descriminate either.

The problem with this codex I guess was that it had to span both 4th and 5th ed without giving to much away about the then unreleased 5th ed rules.

It is about time GW made a ruling on it though as I can clearly see why the do work and people seem to be struggling to convince me that they don't.

RAW, RAI??
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SpikyJohn
Mon Aug 23 2010, 11:47AM
Registered Member #70
Joined: Sat Jun 19 2010, 11:38AM
Posts: 236
I think Dave's point is that there is only such thing as a positive bonus. A negative bonus does not exist no?

RAW=Rules as Written
RAI=Rules as Intended

Personally I think that they should get I10 when charging through cover or otherwise as they are pretty average anyways.

If only GW would sort it out FAQ style, but then they don't care about such things.
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babychaos
Mon Aug 23 2010, 12:38PM

Registered Member #14
Joined: Tue Jan 12 2010, 11:56PM
Posts: 613
Regarding the Kill 'em All mission, I have updated the FAQ, as after discussion the rulings were not correct (my bad for lack of understanding of the Imperial Guard rules).

Unit cost is now after deployment options (such as Combat Squading, blobbing and Wolf Guard assignment). I will get the rules pack updated ASAP as well...
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SpikyJohn
Mon Aug 23 2010, 12:43PM
Registered Member #70
Joined: Sat Jun 19 2010, 11:38AM
Posts: 236
I think that is a good call. At the moment I think this is just a conversation between me and you but still, at least it sorts it out.
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babychaos
Mon Aug 23 2010, 12:46PM

Registered Member #14
Joined: Tue Jan 12 2010, 11:56PM
Posts: 613
it's safe to say I'm on a steep learning curve with regard to the rules!

It's definitely good to get as many issues as possible ironed out now...
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babychaos
Wed Aug 25 2010, 06:59AM

Registered Member #14
Joined: Tue Jan 12 2010, 11:56PM
Posts: 613
FAQ entries added for Daemon Hunter/Witch Hunter PDF Codex and allies, and a ruling on Vulcan Hestan used as an ally.
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SpikyJohn
Wed Aug 25 2010, 08:44AM
Registered Member #70
Joined: Sat Jun 19 2010, 11:38AM
Posts: 236
Spot on Pete, good ruling.
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nosferatu1001
Fri Aug 27 2010, 12:57PM

Registered Member #13
Joined: Tue Jan 12 2010, 04:40PM
Posts: 545
One query:
Can enemy (non-ork) units benefit from a Kustom Force Field?

Yes - the force field extends where the force field extends, and protects everyone in range and under the umbrella

This goes directly against the BRB FAQ which states an entry has to specify a piece of wargear affects enemy models, otherwise it only affects your army - so in this case the KFF would only work for Ork units.
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babychaos
Fri Aug 27 2010, 04:39PM

Registered Member #14
Joined: Tue Jan 12 2010, 11:56PM
Posts: 613
The FAQ says it as a recommendation in case of ambiguity, not as a hard and fast rule.

The KFF says "all units/vehicles", and the interpretation of it is as above (and has been for previous Spiky events)
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